ARE YOU KIDDING ME! Al has everything to do with the Raiders problems. Hey, I've always been a huge supporter of Mr. Davis aka. the Godfather of football, but for the first time in my life, I agree that Al is the cause of most of the grief. First of all, he hired Art Shell, a guy who hasn't coached in like forever who then hired an o-cord. who also hasn't been in the game for a very long time. They have an out of date philosophy which we all know is also Al's philosophy and it DOES NOT WORK ANYMORE. D's are to fast these days to have your QB make 5-7 step drops everytime you pass the ball. QB's don't have time and DB's can run with most 4.3 40 WR's anyway. Oh, and don't forget that the reason Art is our coach is because every other coaching prospect wanted nothing to do with AL. Mostly because of the rate in which Al fires/trades coaches. No coach hired by AL is given the time to build a team. Just look at the facts. The last time the Raiders were a good team was when we ran a modern system with Gruden and Callahan. You all know how it took everything Al had to agree to go west coast and give up the out dated Vertical game. Now it's been back for going on 3 years and it's been killing us. Second of all, all those sacks from last night were a direct result of the system and bad play from the linemen. Wait, where did all those linemen come from? They were draft picks by Mr. Davis. Gallery, Walker, Grove, and McQuistan all were drafted by the Raiders and we all know who makes the picks. The line was horrible last year and we didn't even try to go after any good FA's to upgrade the o-line. Blame Al for that. The next thing I'll bring up is the running game. Lamont is ok but he is way overpayed, had a horrible rush average last year and also dropped to many balls last year. Why did they give up so much "cap cash" for Jordan when Al had to know that the following off season was going to be filled with availible Proven backs. Anthony Thomas, Chester Taylor, DeShaun Foster, Edgerrin James, Jamal Lewis, Michael Bennett, and Shaun Alexander were all FA's this past offseason. What about some of the good backs in this years draft like D. Williams and L. Maroney. Al just could not be patient and look towards the future and think rebuild. He had to think about winning now and reloading. So he gives a backup in Jordan all this money that he has not earned yet. To say he has earned it is crazy and I would say to make a comment like that means you know nothing about football. Then that leads to another issue. How in the HELL are we in such bad cap trouble when we haven't made the playoffs in 3 years and E.S.P.N just picked us to be the worst team in football and hold the number 1 pick in next years draft. Jordan is not the only one on our team being overpayed. You can only blame one person for that issue, AL DAVIS! Now let us talk about the "D." Al hires a LB coach from the Pats and doesn't get him LB's to run his system. It gets so bad that we now run mostly with 5 DB's and 2 LB's. Then after our "d" stinks for 2 years, Al gives the guy a contract extention. Hey, here is an Idea. How about instead of drafting DB's every single year in the first round, we draft guys in the front 7 who can actually help us win in this division. Look at who we play. Ladanian Tomilson (don't make me bring up that he rushed for 100 yards in the first half on Monday), Larry Johnson, and the Broncos who have the best run game philosophy in football. You would think with those kind of guys that we have to face that we would use our picks on run stoppers. There is no way we can win with 5 DB's always on the field. Don't blame Rob Ryan. He is just working with what he has. Who do we draft every year in round one? M. Huff, F. Washington, Nadi, P. Bucannon, D. Gibson, and S. Rout (a very low 2nd round pick). Why do we need so many first round DB's in the division we play? Speed doesn't always mean good in the modern game and Al just doesn't understand that anymore. Look at how a 4.3 40 DB like Washington got burned by Eric Parker on a simple double move on Monday. Who the hell is Eric Parker? What about how 4.3 40 Huff got beat by a TE in Gates. Again these are all guys that Al Davis drafted. Not proven FA's. Hell we even moved up in the draft and gave up guys to select Washington and Bucannon in round one. I'm not trying to say that I don't like some of those guys that we drafted like Huff and Washington, just that they don't help stop the run in a division where that is very important. Even look at our D-Line. Sapp is not a run stopper. Kelly isn't either. We are very small in the middle. Brayton was used as a Lb the last 2 years so you know he isn't a big dominant run stuffer on the line and Burgess is a smaller pass rusher as well. Are entire "d" is probably the fastest in football but we are small and are going to get killed by the RB's in our division. It's no wonder why we went 0-6 in the division last year. To say that Al Davis is not the problem means to me that you are in DENIAL. I know of this problem because I was in denial about Al for years and the first way to recovery is admittance. LOL! So, we are all pist and want to vent so there was my vent. I feel better. At least untill Sunday.

Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But, what I find interesting is that when things are going well, Al Davis is the end-all, be-all. But when we suck, all you hear is “he is the cause for grief”. And I'm sorry, I do not buy for one minute "No one wanted to coach the Raiders." This is the NFL we are talking about. You mean to tell me that an assistant who has NEVER head coached anywhere in this league is going to turn down an HC job? Nope. That’s not flyin’. Davis said there was one offer and one turn down before Shell. I believe him.
As far as this system being outdated. Well, I cannot say it’s outdated, but we do not have the players up front nor the running attack to accomplish it. I do agree with you that our drafts have sucked in recent years. I think Woodson is the only one who lived up to the hype (for a while anyway). I do like Huff from what I have seen so far, but because he is a rookie, the jury is still out. In Washington’s defense a lot of 1st year corners jump route’s. This is something he can be coached out of. But, I think he will be a solid corner.
While I agree that Davis has made some mistakes, I do not believe he is the absolute problem with the Raiders. And I am not in “denial” either…lol

I don't think that's true either. While no one really knows what went down in the front office, I didn't see the Raiders interviewing anyone worth any real attention. Let's face it, Shell was a last resort signing. Even the Steelers OC Wisenhunt turned us down to stay at OC. Why wouldn't he want a HC job? Even with a poor team, like you said, anyone should jump at a chance to be the HC for an NFL team. Except when it comes to the Raiders or the Redskins. They have owners who interfere with the coaching of the team. I think Snyder has backed off, but just like Steinbrenner of the Yankees, Davis is the supreme ruler of the Raiders, and what he says, goes. I'll bet that scared more than just a few coaches and players away. (For example, Josh McCown from the Cardinals who ended up taking a BACK UP role in Detroit rather than taking a STARTING role with the Raiders.) Al interefers, and no one wants to deal with him or his team.



Al's thought process was always: Fast = good. That's just not true. The Raiders are not a olympic track team. If it were, we'd be winning. Trading Gabriel was stupid. Just because Whitted is fast, that doesn't mean he's good. Being fast doesn't mean you can catch balls, run routes, or be physical. The same goes for the defense. We have NO run stoppers. I MUST agree with badmoon here. Like my brother always said, "You need the fat man in the middle. It makes the OL double team him every play, and he fills in holes." I woulda liked signing Grady Jackson back when he became available from the Packers. He may be old, but all he'd have to do is stand in the middle of the line and drag down anyone who ran near him. The team, at this point, is grasping at straws. I hate to say, but it will be a relief of some sorts when the crazy old man Davis relinquishes his death grip on the Oakland Raiders. Until then, if we ever end up with a quality coach or player, don't plan on keeping them long. He may not have gone about it the right way, but why do you think Porter wants out so bad?

Like you said no one knows what goes on behind closed doors. But, I cannot and will not buy into this thing that says “Guys are turning us down who have never had or been given the opportunity to HC.” This is not like turning down a job at McDonalds. This is a Head Coach in the NFL. On Al’s interference, Is it interference or is it that he wants the team he built to be the very best it can be? Jon Gruden said he understood Al questioning him all the time about what was going on with the team. He said that after he went to the Bucs. I think I said this last year, but the Raiders have NEVER run a shotgun. We did last year. That tells me Al Davis has relinquished some of the “meddling” he has been accused of. On a run stopper, this is where we can all agree. I was hoping for Grady Jackson also. But, we did hold LT in check for most of the second half and aside from that long 60 yard run in the first half (where there were 3 uncalled holds but I digress), we stopped him pretty good in my opinion. On Josh McCown, he is a back up cuz we brought him here and gave him a look over and said “No Thanks.” I don’t know if that was a good or bad decision, but him and Brooks came in at around the same time. If you look at their career numbers, Brooks looks much better on paper (I know that aint sayin’ much). On Jerry Porter…. **** JERRY PORTER.. nuff said.

What about Ken Wisenhunt. He shot us down for HC. You didn't give me an explanation for that one. He was the best prospect at the time.
And did we say no thanks to Josh McCown, or did he say no thanks to us?
And Jerry Porter, yes, **** Jerry Porter, but still, what are his motives for wanting out so bad. So bad that he ran the risk, and ultimately paid the price, of not playing this season. (That's not to say he won't be traded in the very near future, but Al won't take the cap hit, so he sits.) He had to see that coming.
I don't know what's going on, or what's to come, but it doesn't look good. Something wicked this way comes.

I understand where you are coming from but there are plenty of examples of O-cords and D-cords who would rather stay a cord then be a head coach. Look at the D-cords from Tampa and Philly. Every year teams are after those guys and every year they "choose" to stay where they are happy and successful. Whizzenhunt or how ever you spell his name turned us down flat because of not wanting to coach a team with an owner like Davis but also because he is the most talked about head coaching prospect and OC of the Superbowl Champs. Why not stay one more year on a very good team and see if his options are little better next year. After all, this is a huge decision and if Whizzenhunt chooses wrong and say has back to back loosing seasons as a head coach, that kind of mistake could hurt his entire career and future. This is a league where you are given a short leash by owners and if you don't produce right away, then you are fired. Whizz knows this and also knows that his job is safe with the Steelers. I mean look how long Bill Cower has been coach of the Steelers. Their owner is loyal to those coaches that he has success with. The sad thing about this is that with the rate that Al Davis gets rid of coaches, one of Whizz's options will probably be the Raiders again next year. Al will offer more money and he'll turn it down yet again.

Ok, I admitt there has only been one game and I'm already in panic mode. It's just so frustrating. I guess we are all a little spoiled when it comes to the Raiders. This is the first time since Al Davis became a part of the Silver and Black that we have missed the playoffs for three straight years. I give Al credit for keeping us a winning team for the majority of the time. We are all used to the Raiders winning and it is hard to ajust to this long period of loosing. I guess you can call this the first ever "Raider Nation Great Depression." Hopefully it won't be the first ever 4 straight loosing seasons.

Man, I can't wait to get home for this thread!!! So, Al Davis went on television and Lied about not offering the Job to Weisenhut??? And He lied that Art Shell was in the running all the time... He also lied about not making any offers to anyone besides Bobby Petrino... Wisenhut never claimed to have an offer on the table, Martz didn't get an offer... and neither did Al Saunders.

Second... the offense will work if the line can block... Sid Gillmans offense is working through out the league right now. When Al Davis steps onto the field and lines up during a game then you can blame him for the problems that happened on Monday night. Aaron Brooks got sacked on about 6 plays where he took a 5 step drop.... This indicates shitty blocking not poor ownership! If we won the game on Monday Al Davis would not be mentioned in a thread... He'd be a fugging Genious for bringing Art Shell Back!!!

More later

So Max, are you saying that Davis is not an overbearing, interefering, nuisance to the Raiders players, coaches, and fans? Are you saying that when coaches and players consider coming to the Raiders, one of the things they don't have to consider is that they may be fired shortly after for not producing or playing the way he wants you to play? BTW, what happened to George? You said he'd be resigned as soon as the season started. Oh well, can't get them all right, can you? But, 80% isn't bad either. But on this, in my opinion, you're wrong. Al is a cancer to the Oakland Raiders. Not always, but recently.

Yes Max he flat out lied when he said "Only one person was Offered the HC job." He lied when he said it was "Petrino." The media was absolutley correct when they said Marruci was coming to the Raiders and Al Davis lied when he said "Marucci had not even interviewed for the job." Davis just lies his ass off.

You know what... Ah, to hell with it, why even try...

Usually those guys are not looking to be an HC. Teams ask speak with them and they say "No". I'm saying that a guy like Whisenhunt who wanted to HC (or so we were told) would not turn the job down. At least not JUST because Al Davis is the owner. Beside's, Whisenhunt was NEVER even offered the job anyway.

You are just making my point for me. You can't take 5-7 step drops every single time you pass. The Raiders kept trying to go long and kept getting sacked. You said it yourself that 6 sacks came on 5 step drops. You have to take more 3-4 step drops to set up a big play 5-7 step drop. The only pass yards that were successfull on Monday were when Brooks called an audible and threw a quick pass to Moss. That's another point to make. Moss is soooo much more than a deep ball guy. He can catch the short ball and make guys miss. He showed that on Monday. The Raiders don't get that. I agree that the line/players are the problem but the Al Davis/Shell system is as well. Like I said before, Al did nothing to upgrade the line in the offseason and are entire starting o-line unit are his draft picks. If you blame the players you have to blame the guy who picked them.

Cancer might be too strong of a word but this Quote is my feelings of Davis exactly. He is one of the top owners of all time and I have always supported him even through the tuff times. However, this season I can't come up with any logic that would help me make sense of what Al is doing other than the game has finally past him bye or that he has just lost it. In the past, as a die hard member of the Raider Nation we all knew what Al was up to even when the media and others did not understand and talked BS. This time I just don't understand as well. HELP!! I'm loosing my faith in the all powerfull being that is AL DAVIS.......LOL.

Wait a minute. Aren't you the one who said the shuffling of the line has hurt these guys? Gallery in particular? (btw, almost every sack came form the left side) So which is it? Do they suck because Al picked them? Do they suck because of the shuffling of the line? Or do they just suck? I guess it does not matter. It's all Al Davis' fault...