I have been watching this team for many many years and I know Al Davis will not draft a QB with the #1 overall pick.


Calvin Johnson will be a Raider guaranteed

in fact I would almost bet the farm on it

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That explains the Moss for Aaron Rodgers trade,which I am told will happen,I think you're probably right,only because the rb pool looks a little soft,there is probably a gem in there,but not somebody everybody is touting,and qbs usually dont start right away with the Raiders...we need a starter.

I am not buying the Moss for Rodgers talk. Dumb trade on our part. If we cannot get good value for him, then we keep him and play him. Besides, we already drafted a better QB than Rodgers in the same draft. Sign a vet like Rattay and draft another rookie. It doesn't have to be Quinn/Russell in the first because Walter is going to start and kick butt, but it wouldn't hurt my feelings to see either one in S&B next year either.

Rock, I've been watching the same team and although we haven't drafted many QB's in the first round, we've made our fair share of early round picks. I posted some of this data on another forum recently and it was absolutely ignored, so maybe it will spark some discussion here:

Here are some early round pick QB's we've made:
2005 3rd round Andrew Walter
2001 2nd round Marques Tuiasosopo
1993 3rd round Billy Joe Hobert
1991 1st round Todd Marinovich
1987 4th round Steve Beuerlein
1985 6th round Rusty Hilger (12 round drafts)
1980 1st round Marc Wilson
1976 2nd round Jeb Blount
1975 5th round David Humm
1968 1st round Eldridge Dickey
1968 2st round Ken Stabler

Throw out Hilger and Humm and we've still drafted 10 QB's in the early rounds over the last 38 years.

Now lets work our way forward from the past.
In 1968 we had Lamonica as QB. We drafted Stabler who took over in 1973.
We acquired Plunkett in 79 and he took over from Stabler in 80. The same year we drafted Wilson. We had the Plunkett and Wilson years up until 1986.
Plunkett retired after the 86 season. We still had Wilson, Hilger from the 86 draft, and we drafted Beuerlein in 1987.
(I would be remiss if I didn't mention Vince Evans at this point as our trusty QB fall-back plan on the bench.)
We got tired of the Marc Wilson experiment after 1987 and brought in Jay Schroeder to compete with Steve Beuerlein in 1988.
Schroeder won out and started for us through 1992.
We had drafted Marinovich to be our new franchise QB in 1991 and we all know how that turned out.
We brought in Hostetler to be our vet in 1993 and sent Schroeder packing while Marinovich went off and did his thing. We drafted Billy Joe Hobert that year, who rode the pine for us till 1996.
1996-1998 we tried the vet approach with bad results: George, Klinger, Donald Hollas, and Wade Wilson all saw some snaps and that's not even half the guys we brought in.
We all know we got Gannon in 1999, then Collins and then Brooks while drafting Tui and Walter.

So maybe when you just look at the draft data or think about who has started for us, it might make you think we don't like draft QB's early. I think it's a combo of bad draft choices/inability to groom the players we drafted along with getting in some good vets who did well for us ala Plunkett, Gannon and even Schroeder and Hoss had their moments. Just how often have we been in the position to draft a franchise QB, when we needed one and he's been available? Again, I'm not saying we have to draft Quinn/JRuss this year, but part of me thinks it makes sense and we shouldn't pass up the opportunity. I wouldn't be upset if we got CJ or Peterson either. Any of those four is going to be a great addition to the team.

I am not buying the Moss for Rodgers either.


Either way I still say that Al wants Calvin Johnson regardless what happens with Moss

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not gonna happen



kiffin is definately eying on russell more than quinn. I am having feeling al gonna let him pick russell who by the way lost some weight

Notice, however, that we've only drafted QBs high twice in the last 14 years.

I'd rather see Peterson over any of the "top four", or Joe Thomas for that matter, but, we signed Rhodes, and we need QBs, so it's probably gunna be Russell.

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I do see that, but lets break it down further.

2006 - We passed on Leinart. We had Walter, Tui, and signed Brooks.
2005 - We drafted Walter, supposedly our highest rated QB in the 2005 draft.
2004 - We passed on Phillip Rivers and Ben Roethlisberger. Both had mixed scouting reports and neither were considered a must-draft franchise QB. We still had Gannon, Collins, and Tui.
2003 - We had Gannon and Tui and didn't need to draft a QB. Also, not one good QB was drafted after our 1st selection.
2002 - We had Gannon and Tui and didn't need to draft a QB. Again, not one good QB was drafted after our first selection.
2001 - We had Gannon and even though he was kicking major butt, we drafted Tui for the future. Brees was the only good QB selected after we got to make our first selection and he was taken in the second round like Tui. There were questions about his arm strength and like I said we didn't need a QB
2000 - We had Gannon and didn't need a QB. Pennington was selected in the first round after our pick and everyone but the Rams and Patriots passed on Bulger and Brady until the 6th round (lucky draft picks). None were considered franchise QB's.
1999 - We acquired Gannon and didn't need a QB. 5 QB's were drafted before we picked and only two panned out (McNabb and Cpep). The only starter picked after our first selection was Brooks and lucky us, we got him a few years later...lol
1998 - Manning and Leaf were the only two considered franchise QB's in the draft and they went one and two. We had no shot at them.
1997 - No franchise QB's in the draft. Plummer was the only QB drafted who got more than 100 pass attempts in the NFL and he was taken in the 2nd round.
1996 - Not only were there no franchise QB's in the draft. There weren't any decent back-ups drafted. We had Hostetler at the helm and Billy Joe Hobert on the bench.
1995 - McNair and Collins were both picked before we got to pick. No other good QB's drafted. We had Hostetler at the helm and Billy Joe Hobert on the bench.
1994 - Shuler and Dilfer were drafted before we got to pick. Nobody good was picked after that (or them either). We had Hostetler at the helm and Billy Joe Hobert on the bench.
1993 - Bledsoe and Mirer went one and two. We drafted Billy Joe Hobert in the third and he was the third QB taken in the draft.

Okay, that covers your 14 years. I think it's easy to look at our team's past drafts and assume we don't take QB's early, but when you dissect it a bit more you realize that we haven't been in the position to draft a "franchise" QB when we really needed one or there wasn't one there.

I'm not saying that teams haven't gotten lucky with late round picks; Brady, Bulger, and Hasslebeck to name a few. BUT, when it comes to the hyped-first round QB's, the guys labeled as franchise QB's, the only one we've passed on was Leinart last year.

Working my way back from the present:

QB's labled "Franchise" that were picked before our turn:
Vince Young, Alex Smith, Eli Manning, Carson Palmer, Byron Leftwich, Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman, David Carr, Joey Harrington, Michael Vick, Tim Couch, Donovan McNabb, Akili Smith, Daunte Culpepper, Cade McNown, Peyton Manning, Ryan Leaf, Steve McNair, Kerry Collins, Heath Shuler, Trent Dilfer, Drew Bledsoe, and Rick Mirer.

QB's Possibly labeled "Franchise" that we passed:
Aaron Rodgers - We liked Walter better
Philip Rivers - Gallery was can't miss...oops
Drew Brees - Drafted 2nd round so a stretch to be on this list plus we grabbed Tui.
Chad Pennington - I still don't think he is a franchise QB, especially for our offense and philosophy.
Jay Cutler, Ben Roethlisberger and Patrick Ramsey I will add on this list, but I don't recall any being hyped and only remember their stock rising weeks before the draft.

So in the last 14 years we can say we passed on Leinart, Rodgers, Rivers, Brees, Pennington, Cutler, Roethlisberger, and Ramsey. I think we can safely scratch Rodgers and Ramsey from the list. We had Leinart rated higher so can scratch Cutler. I think we are using a lot of hindsight if we want to speculate that the Raiders should have drafted Brees, Pennington, or Cutler. You also have to remember that when Brees, Rivers, and Roethlisberger were drafted we still had Gannon. Really, that only leaves Leinart from last year who many wanted to draft. Al has even said he wanted him.

Do we pass on a QB again? I don't think so. I think I've convinced myself that we are drafting a QB.

damn thats a well thought out post tb

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HOLY SHIT! I stand corrected. I'm very impressed TB. WOW!

Although, and I believe it was prior to the crash, I wanted Cutler to be drafted before Huff. But Huff seems to be worthy of his draft spot. You can get a good safety alot easier than a good quarterback. But alas, whats done is done.

Let me ask you this, would you rather Russell, Quinn, Peterson, or Thomas? As the roster sits right now.

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The Raiders are however rather predictable in the first round,so if they think Russell is better than the rest they will draft him,Al tends to draft OL,and DB's in the first round,and every QB we drafted in the first round turned to sh't,and only one RB worth anything Marcus Allen,but WR's in the first round are really rare for Oakland although we traded up to try to get Moss,and just missed him,my take is the ESPISSN hype is thicker than sh't these days,and whoever we draft in the 1st round will probably be a dud, it really is a rather weak draft,but one thing about getting a college coach is Kiffin may just find some gems in the later rounds.

One things for sure we may have a signed contract for the 1st pick before the draft,now Al Davis has never done that although I don't see anybody in this years draft holding out thinking he deserves for a Fort Knox contract,but look for us to find the a**hole who tries it,just a note to everybody in this years draft..You're not that good ,so sign the f'king contract!


The 1'st pick is a wash,so look for the 2nd round pick to be more interesting.

Well after today we should do the right thing and pick up David Carr. We could possibly dominate the first round if we make the right move now. If we pick up Carr we can move down and pick up draft selections. If we move down we can pick up even more picks by taking Adrian Peterson and packaging Lamont Jordans dancing ass out of town!

You might have something there,I really don't think AL Davis wants to come off with the #1 picks salary he will have to pay,but the trouble is Carr's a$$ will cost also,and I would not be surprised if we picked up another decent back up for Walters off waivers,and then traded down to like 6th and either got a RB or OL...Thats my prediction!

Maybe we will go defense because there is a lot more excitement on that side of the ball anyway.

I agree. I hope we sign him. I didn't want to trade for him at his 11.5 million a year salary, but if we can sign him to a decent deal, provide him a good running game and better o-line protection he could turn things around in his career. If we can't protect our QB better, it won't matter who is back there.

I don't think I want to trade down regardless of who we pick up as FA, unless we can manage to stay in the top 3-4. I think we just grab who we like best. If we get Carr to go with Walter, I don't want a QB with the first pick. Too much money for a guy who is going to be third on the depth chart for a year and might never be better than the two we already have.

I do still like Peterson, but see no rush in letting any of our RB go for this season if we drafted him. We would be asses to let Jordan go after asking him to redo his bonus money, plus we would still be out about the same amount of money cap-wise even if we did let him go. Peterson could spend a year behind a couple vets learning and getting partial playing time. Obviously, if he is an animal there is always the option of trading Lamont prior to the trade deadline.

CJ with the first pick? Man, I keep saying no WR with the 1st round pick, but I guess we've made worse first round picks.

I'm tellin you guy.... it's CJ all the way

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No need to trade down. I say we sign Carr who is now a Free Agent and will not cost that much money. Then we draft tackle Joe Thomas with the first pick and guard Justin Blalock with the second round pick. Not the popular choices I know. I don't believe Moss is going anywhere. Al Davis wanted two first round picks for Porter when Porter was unhappy which made it impossible to trade him. Can you imagine what they want for Moss if they asked for that much for Porter. Moss will stay put just like Porter has. Plus we gave Curry a new deal so I don't think we draft Calvin. We also gave Lamont a new deal and brought in Rhodes so I don't think we draft Peterson. Last, the Raiders never take QB's in round 1 let alone the first pick overall. We made a bold statement last year by saying we believed in Walters enough to pass on Cutler and Leinart. I think considering the Raiders history that we bring in a vet (possibly Carr) to compete with Walters and we pass on the big name rookie QB's yet again. Who does that leave, Joe Thomas. What did we all agree on this forum that was the biggest problem with the offense last year, the O-Line. Finally, the Raiders really haven't done much to improve the worst O-Line in football last year with the exception of signing an injury prone former pro-bowl center. I think we shock everyone by selecting Thomas. Then with the first pick in the 2nd round we select who I think is the best Guard in the draft in Justin Blalock. He is dominate at run blocking. Most experts have Blalock going in the very late first to early second round. If he is there with the 2nd round pick than it is a no brainer for the Raiders. I never understand how a guys stock rises and another plumets during the offseason. Right now, most believe Ben Grubbs is the top guard even though everyone praised Blalock during the actual season. There are also some other tackles besides Joe Thomas rated higher than Blalock. Not that I am upset cause it could end up great for the Raiders. We have been searching for a top notch LT replacement to L. Kennedy for a few years now. Barry Simms is not the guy and I can't believe he will "ONCE AGAIN" find his way into the starting lineup. Gallery is not the guy either although I still think if finally given consistancy at one position, he will eventually work out just fine for us. He is still soooo young. Anyway, here is my predicted starting O-Line next year.

LT- Joe Thomas
LG- Justin Blalock
C- Jake Grove (Newberry signing will push Grove into gear)
RG- Paul McQuistan
RT- Robert Gallery (4th year and will be 4th time asked to change positions)